Tie and Toga for June 21, 2006
On today's program, the Langley pastors interview Dr. Arjan DeVisser, one of the professors of our seminary in Hamilton. We talk about his work at the Theological College, his past experiences in South Africa, and some of his observations about Canadian Reformed church life.
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posted by Who are You? @ 2:22 PM
4 Comments:
There were a few things in the latest podcast that I was wondering about.
First of all, while there were references to both black and white congregations in South Africa, statistics were only offered as to the number of white churches. How many black churches might there be?
Secondly, when black and white churches are being spoken of are you talking about 100% black and 100% white or is there at least some level of racial integration taking place (even if a church might still be 90% black or 90% white)?
Third, there were comments made regarding black churches using an "african reformed" liturgy whereas the white churches were using a liturgy that people in the CanRC might be more accustomed to. Is this considered a temporary accomodation in a missionary or near-missionary setting, or is such an "african" liturgy planned for long-term use? (I seem to recall that gullchasedship commented recently on liturgical differences in the Hamilton mission, but I can't seem to find that post back.)
I suppose that I have some stereotypes carried through books and the media on what "african worship" is like, but I'd be curious to hear more about the "African Reformed" liturgy and how it compares both to my stereotypes and to a traditional European-style reformed liturgy.
My last question might be prompted by my recent reading regarding Christianity and feminism (which I commented about at my site). Given the typical CanRC thoughts on gender roles, how is it that having a woman publishing in theological journeys is not seen as an inconsistency? (I should note that I don't have a problem with what's she's doing - but just wonder how it fits into the CanRC's ideas on gender)
Thanks for those questions, David. Those questions are best answered by Dr. DeVisser. He's going to be on the road yet for another week or so. In fact, I think he's going to be doing a presentation in Calgary next week, so maybe you can catch him there and ask him personally. Nevertheless, when he gets back home, I'll encourage him to have a look at your questions, but I can't promise that he'll look or give an answer. Perhaps you might want to e-mail him privately.
Dave, I think the "post" you were referring to was actually a comment on this podcast.
Well, I made it to the Calgary version of the presentation this evening. In the end I had less than 3 hours notice of the meeting, and was moving a bunch of stuff to my new place that evening. Even with supper being a quick run through a convenience store I still ended up being about 15 minutes late. I think that I was there for the majority of the presentation though.
To try to summarize the answers to those questions which were largely directed at Dr. de Visser:
1. Apparently there are two "instituted black churches" with regular Sunday preaching at an additional 4 or 6 locations. This compares to the 6 "white" congregations.
2. This seems to be an issue of both linguistics and geography. Apparently the "white" churches conduct their services in Afrikaans and the "black" churches conduct services in English and/or native dialects. As to geography they're still left with post-apartheid "white" areas and "black" areas, with intermixing only taking place to any large extent in such areas as student housing. Apparently some of the white congregations have a black member or two, so it seems like the racism witnessed to in the podcast has largely disappeared within the church there.
As to the liturgical differences, apparently all the same elements exist in both liturgies, but the "black" worship is somewhat less "formal". There is some interaction - the pastor might have a question and receive a response from a member of the congregation, and different members would be asked to read various passages of scripture (perhaps in a local dialect). Dr. de Visser didn't seem to think this a bad idea and seemed accepting of the idea that a slightly less-rigid formalistic structure might be an improvement.
Disclaimer: I wasn't taken notes, so this is essentially a recollection from memory which may contain errors (although I don't think there are any). I've tried to avoid putting words in anyone's mouth - if there's something here you disagree with please confirm with him before making any statements about what he may or may not think.
Well, that takes care of most of my questions, although it still leaves the last one.
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